{"id":2800,"date":"2009-01-11T00:05:50","date_gmt":"2009-01-11T05:05:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/?p=2800"},"modified":"2009-01-11T03:08:40","modified_gmt":"2009-01-11T08:08:40","slug":"clash-of-the-titans","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2009\/01\/11\/clash-of-the-titans\/","title":{"rendered":"clash of the titans&#8230;"},"content":{"rendered":"<br \/>\n<blockquote>\n<p align=\"center\"><a mce_real_href=\"http:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2009\/01\/09\/opinion\/09krugman.html\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2009\/01\/09\/opinion\/09krugman.html\"><font color=\"#300030\"><b>The Obama Gap<\/b><\/font><\/a><br \/>             By PAUL KRUGMAN<br \/>             January 8, 2009<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"><img decoding=\"async\" mce_real_src=\"http:\/\/graphics8.nytimes.com\/images\/2006\/04\/02\/opinion\/ts-krugman-190.jpg\" src=\"http:\/\/graphics8.nytimes.com\/images\/2006\/04\/02\/opinion\/ts-krugman-190.jpg\" align=\"right\" border=\"1\" vspace=\"3\" width=\"133\" hspace=\"5\"\/>\u00e2\u20ac\u0153I don\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t believe it\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s too late to change course, but it will be if we don\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t take dramatic action as soon as possible. If nothing is done, this recession could linger for years.\u00e2\u20ac\u009d<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">So declared President-elect Barack Obama on Thursday, explaining why the nation needs an extremely aggressive government response to the economic downturn. He\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s right. This is the most dangerous economic crisis since the Great Depression, and it could all too easily turn into a prolonged slump. <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">But Mr. Obama\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s prescription doesn\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t live up to his diagnosis. The economic plan he\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s offering isn\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t as strong as his language about the economic threat. In fact, it falls well short of what\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s needed.The bottom line is that the Obama plan is unlikely to close more than half of the looming output gap, and could easily end up doing less than a third of the job.<\/div>\n<div align=\"center\"><b>&#8230;<\/b><\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\">Why isn\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t Mr. Obama trying to do more?<\/div>\n<p align=\"justify\">Is the plan being limited by fear of debt? There are dangers associated with large-scale government borrowing \u00e2\u20ac\u201d and this week\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s C.B.O. report projected a $1.2 trillion deficit for this year. But it would be even more dangerous to fall short in rescuing the economy. The president-elect spoke eloquently and accurately on Thursday about the consequences of failing to act \u00e2\u20ac\u201d there\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s a real risk that we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ll slide into a prolonged, Japanese-style deflationary trap \u00e2\u20ac\u201d but the consequences of failing to act adequately aren\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t much better. <\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">Is the plan being limited by a lack of spending opportunities? There are only a limited number of \u00e2\u20ac\u0153shovel-ready\u00e2\u20ac\u009d public investment projects \u00e2\u20ac\u201d that is, projects that can be started quickly enough to help the economy in the near term. But there are other forms of public spending, especially on health care, that could do good while aiding the economy in its hour of need.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">Or is the plan being limited by political caution? Press reports last month indicated that Obama aides were anxious to keep the final price tag on the plan below the politically sensitive trillion-dollar mark. There also have been suggestions that the plan\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s inclusion of large business tax cuts, which add to its cost but will do little for the economy, is an attempt to win Republican votes in Congress. <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">   Whatever the explanation, the Obama plan just doesn\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t look adequate to the economy\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s need. To be sure, a third of a loaf is better than none. But right now we seem to be facing two major economic gaps: the gap between the economy\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s potential and its likely performance, and the gap between Mr. Obama\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s stern economic rhetoric and his somewhat disappointing economic plan.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<hr size=\"1\" width=\"80%\"\/>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"center\"><b><a mce_real_href=\"http:\/\/thinkprogress.org\/2009\/01\/09\/obama-krugman-idea\/\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/thinkprogress.org\/2009\/01\/09\/obama-krugman-idea\/\"><font color=\"#300030\">\u00e2\u20ac\u02dcIf Paul Krugman has a good idea\u00e2\u20ac\u00a6<\/font><\/a><\/b><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\"><b><a mce_real_href=\"http:\/\/thinkprogress.org\/2009\/01\/09\/obama-krugman-idea\/\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/thinkprogress.org\/2009\/01\/09\/obama-krugman-idea\/\"><font color=\"#300030\">then we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122re going to do it\u00e2\u20ac\u2122&#8230;<\/font><\/a><\/b><\/div>\n<p>     <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\"><img decoding=\"async\" mce_real_src=\"http:\/\/tbn2.google.com\/images?q=tbn:wwpqFN7L8nWEoM:http:\/\/images.nymag.com\/images\/2\/daily\/intel\/08\/06\/27_obama_lg.jpg\" src=\"http:\/\/tbn2.google.com\/images?q=tbn:wwpqFN7L8nWEoM:http:\/\/images.nymag.com\/images\/2\/daily\/intel\/08\/06\/27_obama_lg.jpg\" align=\"right\" border=\"1\" vspace=\"3\" width=\"150\" hspace=\"5\"\/>Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman has been a frequent critic of President-elect Obama. During the primary season, he faulted Obama for saying there is a Social Security \u00e2\u20ac\u0153crisis,\u00e2\u20ac\u009d refusing to adopt a mandate in his health care proposals, and not fighting enough on \u00e2\u20ac\u0153partisan issues.\u00e2\u20ac\u009d In fact, today in his New York Times column, Krugman expresses skepticism at the effectiveness of Obama\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s stimulus plan, in particular his tax cuts for businesses: <\/div>\n<ul>\n<div align=\"justify\">But right now we seem to be facing two major economic gaps: the gap between the economy\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s potential and its likely performance, and the gap between Mr. Obama\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s stern economic rhetoric and his somewhat disappointing economic plan.<\/div>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\">Today in his press conference, a reporter questioned Obama about Krugman\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s criticisms. Obama said that he is open to the economist\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s ideas: \u00e2\u20ac\u0153If Paul Krugman has a good idea, in terms of how to spend money efficiently and effectively to jump-start the economy, then we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122re going to do it.\u00e2\u20ac\u009d <\/div>\n<p>     <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">Last month, Krugman told radio host Bill Press that he is \u00e2\u20ac\u0153in communications\u00e2\u20ac\u009d with the Obama team. <\/div>\n<ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><b>CHIP REID:<\/b> Thank you, Mr. President-Elect. I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122d like to follow up on that. Larry Summers, as he said, is up on the Hill now, and we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122re told he\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s getting an earful from some Democrats who say this plan just isn\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t big enough. And I know you resisted putting a number on it, but your staff has talked about a high end of $800 billion or something like that. They say if that\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s true, and 40 percent of it is tax cuts that don\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t have the bang for the buck, that spending has, it\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s not big enough. Paul Krugman today said it falls far short for what you\u00e2\u20ac\u2122re going to need to put America back to work. How do you respond to those critics? <\/div>\n<p align=\"justify\"><b>OBAMA:<\/b> Look, there\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s some people who have said that it\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s not big enough, there are others who say it\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s too big. Well, the \u00e2\u20ac\u201d as I said before, Democrats or Republicans, we welcome good ideas. And so the challenge for all of us, I think, is to identify good ideas, good spending plans, that deliver on my commitment to create or save 3 million jobs. I want this to work. This is not an intellectual exercise, and there is no pride of authorship. If members of Congress have good ideas, if they can identify a project for me that will create jobs in an efficient way, that does not hamper our ability to \u00e2\u20ac\u201d over the long term \u00e2\u20ac\u201d get control of our deficit, that is good for the economy, then I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122m going to accept it.<\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">If Paul Krugman has a good idea, in terms of how to spend money efficiently and effectively to jump-start the economy, then we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122re going to do it. If somebody has an idea for a tax cut that is better than a tax cut we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve proposed, we will embrace it. So, you know, one of the things that I think I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122m trying to communicate in this process is for everybody to get past the habit that sometimes occurs in Washington of whose idea is it, what ideological corner does it come from. Just show me. If you can show me that something is going to work, I will welcome it.<\/div>\n<\/ul>\n<\/blockquote>\n<hr size=\"1\" width=\"80%\"\/>\n<p align=\"justify\">Well. here&#8217;s a dilemma &#8211; two people who I admire a lot who are having a spat, Paul Krugman and Barack Obama. I like both of them for the same reasons. They&#8217;re both honest; they&#8217;re both &#8220;right-thinking&#8221;; they&#8217;re both smart. But they&#8217;re both in a bind. Krugman really thinks that this financial crisis needs an F.D.R. level response &#8211; Keynesian Economics extrordinaire. He also surely knows that Obama doesn&#8217;t need criticism from liberals right now. Obama&#8217;s bind is that he needs to have a package that gets through Congress [Republicans and fiscal moderate Democrats], <u>and<\/u> he needs to have a plan that works.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">The only thing I&#8217;m sure of is that I don&#8217;t want him to let Bush and friends spend the rest of the bail-out. Other than that, I worry about the tax-cuts being part of the stimulus package too. It puts money in people&#8217;s pockets, but I expect that&#8217;s where it will stay. I&#8217;d rather allocate that money to job creation. So I worry that Obama is on the soft side. On the other hand, I don&#8217;t think throwing money at things is a very hot idea either &#8211; look at the bail-out. We&#8217;re going to have to pay it back sometime. So I agree with Krugman that I&#8217;d like to see a bit more vigor, but I respect Obama&#8217;s caution.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">On the Krugman side, as much as I like him, he&#8217;s a <u>real<\/u> liberal. In the recent past, it caused him to make an error in my opinion. In May, he wrote a column, <a mce_real_href=\"http:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2008\/05\/12\/opinion\/12krugman.html\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2008\/05\/12\/opinion\/12krugman.html\"><font color=\"#300030\"><b>The Oil Non-Bubble<\/b><\/font><\/a>, in which he said that the escalating gas prices did not represent a &#8220;financial bubble.&#8221; He pointed to the dwindling oil supply in the world [supply and demand]. We needed to tighten our belts and get on board the move to drive less and cut our oil habit. He was right about dwindling oil reserves and exactly right about what we ought to do. But, that&#8217;s the way financial bubbles work &#8211; there&#8217;s a believable reason that some market is shooting through the roof that hides the underlying speculation. So, even though everything Krugman said was correct, the escalation of the oil prices <u><b>was<\/b><\/u> a financial bubble that &#8220;burst&#8221; in June, only a month after Krugman&#8217;s article. So, he&#8217;s not infallible. If I were he, I would think my beliefs about the rightness of addressing the oil dependance and global warming, strong liberal values I personally agree with, got in the way of the economics. Speculators took advantage of the rightness of that argument, and had a field day in the oil futures market creating a destructive bubble. To my reading, the bursting of the oil bubble was the &#8220;straw that broke the camel&#8217;s back,&#8221; and the whole Market followed it down the slope in only a few months. So it wasn&#8217;t <u>just<\/u> a bubble, but it was <u>also<\/u> a bubble:<\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" mce_real_src=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/images\/3bubbles2.gif\" src=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/images\/3bubbles2.gif\" border=\"0\" width=\"400\" height=\"211\"\/>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">But while I suspect Krugman&#8217;s Liberal, Keynesian values may be pushing him a bit, Paul Krugman is no &#8220;Chicken Little.&#8221; If he&#8217;s saying the sky is falling, the sky is likely to be falling. And as for Obama, I think he wants to be responsible in his spending. He has watched Bush piss away a huge fortune, including the recent bail-out, and he&#8217;s being understandably cautious. I still think they&#8217;re both heavyweights. I really liked Obama&#8217;s response:<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">If Paul Krugman has a good idea in terms of how to spend money efficiently and effectively to jump-start the economy, then we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122re going to do it. If somebody has an idea for a tax cut that is better than a tax cut we\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve proposed, we will embrace it. So, you know, <font color=\"#300030\"><b>one of the things that I think I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122m trying to communicate in this process is for everybody to get past the habit that sometimes occurs in Washington of whose idea is it, what ideological corner does it come from. Just show me. If you can show me that something is going to work, I will welcome it.<\/b><\/font><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">I always like his responses. They are the responses of a real &#8220;decider,&#8221; though Obama would never coopt that moniker. He talks like a grown-up. He put the ball in Krugman&#8217;s Court effectively. &#8220;Don&#8217;t just say &#8216;more.&#8217; Show me some numbers. Give me some ideas about the &#8216;more&#8217; you think we ought to spend.&#8221; And, I believe Obama &#8211; if Krugman has a good idea of what needs doing, Obama will push to do it. I hope Paul Krugman does exactly what Obama asked him to do, and I think he probably will. Paul Krugman has earned the right to weigh in. This is actually how things are supposed to work&#8230;<\/div>\n<hr size=\"1\"\/>\n<div align=\"justify\"><i>Parenthetically, I don&#8217;t miss the point of Krugman&#8217;s sense of urgency, but there&#8217;s a question of style on the table too. Bush&#8217;s style has been to rush in waving his arms with something that had to be passed yesterday, and once it passed, he never changed anything about it based on experience. He&#8217;s about to do it again. He&#8217;s got nine days to go before he&#8217;s off to Crawford, Texas and he&#8217;s wanting to dispense the rest of the bail-out before he goes. It&#8217;s urgent! No thank you&#8230;<\/i><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The Obama Gap By PAUL KRUGMAN January 8, 2009 \u00e2\u20ac\u0153I don\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t believe it\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s too late to change course, but it will be if we don\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t take dramatic action as soon as possible. If nothing is done, this recession could linger for years.\u00e2\u20ac\u009d So declared President-elect Barack Obama on Thursday, explaining why the nation needs an [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_bbp_topic_count":0,"_bbp_reply_count":0,"_bbp_total_topic_count":0,"_bbp_total_reply_count":0,"_bbp_voice_count":0,"_bbp_anonymous_reply_count":0,"_bbp_forum_subforum_count":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2800","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-politics"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2800","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2800"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2800\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2800"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2800"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2800"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}