{"id":43566,"date":"2014-02-02T00:05:02","date_gmt":"2014-02-02T05:05:02","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/?p=43566"},"modified":"2014-02-02T00:41:28","modified_gmt":"2014-02-02T05:41:28","slug":"off-the-science-grid","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2014\/02\/02\/off-the-science-grid\/","title":{"rendered":"off the science grid&#8230;"},"content":{"rendered":"<br \/>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"big\"><a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/fiddaman.blogspot.com\/2014\/01\/karen-wagner-on-treating-kids-with.html?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FlfPg+%28SEROXAT+SUFFERERS+-+STAND+UP+AND+BE+COUNTED%29\">Karen Wagner on Treating Kids With Antidepressants <\/a><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"big\"><strong><font color=\"#003399\">Fiddamans blog<\/font><\/strong><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"middle\">by Bob Fiddaman<\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"small\">January 31, 2014<\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"small\">[<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/fiddaman.blogspot.com\/2014\/01\/karen-wagner-on-treating-kids-with.html?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FlfPg+%28SEROXAT+SUFFERERS+-+STAND+UP+AND+BE+COUNTED%29\">full text on-line<\/a>]      <\/div>\n<p align=\"justify\"> You&#8217;d have to be from the planet Zog if you didn&#8217;t know who Karen Wagner was.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"> Her name is synonymous with antidepressant pediatric studies. She added  her name to the Paxil 329 ghostwritten paper without actually looking at  the raw data [which showed an increased rate of suicidal thoughts in  kids taking Paxil] &#8211; The result of that piece of Pharmafia fraud told  millions of prescribing physicians that Paxil was safe to use in  children and adolescents&#8230;when in actual fact it wasn&#8217;t. Wagner has been relentless to disprove those who believe antidepressant  use in kids is wrong. She sees no problem with it&#8230;despite overwhelming  evidence that shows just how dangerous antidepressant use in kids can  be.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"> An article published in <strong><font color=\"#200020\">Clinical Psychiatry News<\/font><\/strong> [<a title=\"Treating youngsters\u2019 depression means going off the FDA grid\" href=\"http:\/\/www.clinicalpsychiatrynews.com\/single-view\/treating-youngsters-depression-means-going-off-the-fda-grid\/b83a1bc2338e54762f2c01a13fb13eef.html\"><span class=\"list_news_title_tabs\">Treating youngsters&rsquo; depression means going off the FDA grid<\/span><\/a>] a couple of days ago shows Wagner, once again, promoting the use of SSRi medication in children and adolescents. Wagner was present at a psychopharmacology update held by the American  Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry where she claimed that <em>&quot;&#8230;60%  of youngsters will respond favorably to their first antidepressant  medication &ndash; generally a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI)&quot;<\/em> Wagner  also went on to claim that Switching to a different antidepressant will  help about 50% of those who don&rsquo;t respond. But adding psychotherapy  will grab about 10% more &ndash; bringing the total response rate up to around  70%&quot;. She was referring to a 2008 study,&nbsp;TORDIA [Treatment of Resistant  Depression in Adolescents]. <\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\"> So, Wagner hits the stage at these types of events, she&#8217;s a key opinion  leader, in other words, those employed in the same field as her look up  to her, respect her, hang on to her every word. She is the Geldof of the  pop world, pushing her message at every given opportunity. Quite why  she sticks her middle finger up at evidence that shows kids kill  themselves whilst on these drugs kind of alarms me.<\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\"> So, is Wagner on a mission to help depressed children and teens, does  she genuinely care about this population or are there more sinister  undertones? It would help if she and the article published in <strong><font color=\"#200020\">Clinical Psychiatry News<\/font><\/strong> was actually more transparent about her relationship and financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry [Pharmafia]. Upon reading the article I had to do a double take at the end&#8230; <em>&quot;Dr. Wagner has no financial relationships with pharmaceutical companies&quot;&#8230;<\/em><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">As you can see, Fid&#8217;s not very taken with Karen Wagner [nor am I]. She has only one message, one that she&#8217;s preached forever. And this is it. Her industry connections are legend and well covered in the rest of Fid&#8217;s blog post. In the piece in <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.clinicalpsychiatrynews.com\/single-view\/treating-youngsters-depression-means-going-off-the-fda-grid\/b83a1bc2338e54762f2c01a13fb13eef.html\">Clinical Psychiatry News<\/a>, they report further down that she says:<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">Venlafaxine is one of many antidepressants that are not approved for use in children and teens. Treating depression in youngsters almost always means off-label prescribing. Only two antidepressants &ndash; fluoxetine and escitalopram &ndash; are Food and Drug Administration&ndash;approved for children and teens, and only fluoxetine is approved for children younger than 12 years. And data are actually mixed about fluoxetine; a recent published study showed it was no different from placebo over 6 months. Of the older, more well-known  antidepressants, only two have positive data for youngsters. One  randomized study of citalopram posted positive findings for its primary  endpoint [<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov\/pubmed\/15169696\">American Journal of Psychiatry 2004;161:1079-83<\/a>].  The other is sertraline, which had positive overall findings in a  pooled analysis, although the individual studies were negative [<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov\/pubmed\/12941675\">JAMA 2003;290:1033-41]<\/a>.<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">It is lost on no one that the two studies of &quot;<em>the older, more well-known  antidepressants<\/em>&quot; that she reports as positive are studies she, Karen Wagner, did. I wasn&#8217;t impressed with either [<a href=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2012\/03\/02\/clinically-insignificant-study\/\" target=\"_blank\">clinically insignificant study&hellip;<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2011\/07\/22\/tuning-the-quartet\/\" target=\"_blank\">tuning the quartet&hellip;<\/a>].  <\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">Studies on all of the other drugs were negative, including mirtazapine [two studies], nefazodone [two], paroxetine [three], and venlafaxine [two].<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">Notice that she now includes all three Paroxetine studies in the negative column, including the one we know as <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov\/pubmed\/11437014\" target=\"_blank\">Paxil Study 329<\/a>, the one she&#8217;s an author on, the one that concludes, &quot;<em>Paroxetine is generally well tolerated and effective for major depression in adolescents<\/em>.&quot; There&#8217;s more: <\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\">\n<blockquote>\n<div>This doesn&rsquo;t mean the medications won&rsquo;t work &ndash; they do benefit some children, Dr. Wagner said. But parents need to know that the studies in children were not positive. However, she added, the safety profiles were all reasonably good&#8230;<\/div>\n<\/blockquote><\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\">As we all know, including Karen Wagner, the meta-analysis of these studies and an FDA panel didn&#8217;t share her enthusiasm for their safety profile. She continues:  <\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">The newest evidence for duloxetine in youngsters with depression looks lousy. In two highly anticipated, yet-unpublished, phase  III trials, duloxetine and fluoxetine &ndash; which is already approved for  kids &ndash; completely fell apart relative to placebo, Dr. Wagner said&#8230; <\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">If you&#8217;re confused, you&#8217;re in good company. Where does her statement <em>&quot;<strong><font color=\"#200020\">&#8230;60%  of youngsters will respond favorably to their first  antidepressant  medication &ndash; generally a selective serotonin reuptake  inhibitor (SSRI)<\/font><\/strong>&quot;<\/em> come from? I have no idea where that comes from. She then proceeds to go through the antidepressants one by one, shooting down the efficacy of all save two, the ones that she personally studied and reported herself as positive. She tells us that she <em>&quot;has no financial relationships with pharmaceutical companies&quot; <\/em>yet at the time she reported these <em>positive<\/em> studies, she was heavily involved with the respective pharmaceutical companies and was assisted by their funding, their resources, and their employees as coauthors.&nbsp;<\/div>\n<p align=\"justify\">That leaves the <strong><font color=\"#200020\">Treatment of Resistant Depression in Adolescents<\/font><\/strong> [TORDIA] study, one of those NIMH funded clinical trials contemporary with many of the other industry funded trials she mentions. She was an author on that one too. I&#8217;ve never commented on that study &#8211; for a reason. It&#8217;s super-convoluted and reported in pieces in a bunch of different journals. But since it&#8217;s the center of her talk, I expect I&#8217;ll dig up those papers and go through it soon [but don&#8217;t hold your breath for great clarity].<\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">The title of this article about Dr. Wagner&#8217;s presentation is <a title=\"Treating youngsters\u2019 depression means going off the FDA grid\" href=\"http:\/\/www.clinicalpsychiatrynews.com\/single-view\/treating-youngsters-depression-means-going-off-the-fda-grid\/b83a1bc2338e54762f2c01a13fb13eef.html\"><span class=\"list_news_title_tabs\">Treating youngsters&rsquo; depression means going off the FDA grid<\/span><\/a><span class=\"list_news_title_tabs\">. <\/span><span class=\"list_news_title_tabs\">But from the content, one wonders if it shouldn&#8217;t have been titled <em>Treating youngster&#8217;s depression means going off the science grid<\/em>&#8230; <br \/><\/span><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Karen Wagner on Treating Kids With Antidepressants Fiddamans blog by Bob Fiddaman January 31, 2014 [full text on-line] You&#8217;d have to be from the planet Zog if you didn&#8217;t know who Karen Wagner was. Her name is synonymous with antidepressant pediatric studies. She added her name to the Paxil 329 ghostwritten paper without actually looking [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_bbp_topic_count":0,"_bbp_reply_count":0,"_bbp_total_topic_count":0,"_bbp_total_reply_count":0,"_bbp_voice_count":0,"_bbp_anonymous_reply_count":0,"_bbp_topic_count_hidden":0,"_bbp_reply_count_hidden":0,"_bbp_forum_subforum_count":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43566","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-politics"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43566","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43566"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43566\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":43578,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43566\/revisions\/43578"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43566"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43566"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43566"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}