{"id":51960,"date":"2014-12-07T13:00:14","date_gmt":"2014-12-07T18:00:14","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/?p=51960"},"modified":"2014-12-09T05:49:53","modified_gmt":"2014-12-09T10:49:53","slug":"51960","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2014\/12\/07\/51960\/","title":{"rendered":"here-we-go-again?&#8230;"},"content":{"rendered":"<br \/>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"big\"><a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.madinamerica.com\/2014\/12\/debate-allen-frances-robert-whitaker\/\">A Debate Between Allen Frances and Robert Whitaker<\/a><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"big\"><strong><font color=\"#200020\">Mad in America<\/font><\/strong><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"middle\">by Allen Frances, M.D. and Robert Whitaker<\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"small\">December 4, 2014<\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"middle\">[<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.madinamerica.com\/2014\/12\/debate-allen-frances-robert-whitaker\/\">full text on-line<\/a>]<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p align=\"justify\" class=\"small\"><em><font color=\"#200020\">It&#8217;s  there for all to read so I won&#8217;t try to summarize it here. I&#8217;d suggest  reading it, actually reading it several times. Because it&#8217;s so familiar,  I tended to skim it the first time through. And it deserves a more  thorough reading. The other thing I would suggest is to pretend you are a  psychiatrist if you&#8217;re not. And pretend you&#8217;re not a psychiatrist if  you are. We&#8217;re in such a rut with all of this, that about all you&#8217;ll  come away with is having rooted for your home team if you don&#8217;t do  something to break the frame of your well-worn ideas or ideology.<\/font><\/em><\/p>\n<hr width=\"75%\" size=\"1\" \/>\n<p align=\"justify\">I  have a lot of respect for these men. Both have done something creative  and courageous by running against the tide of the times. They&#8217;ve  inserted themselves into the center of important debates that had grown  monotonous, moved things into a much more productive though certainly no  less divisive trajectory. I&#8217;ve read their writings with interest, and  like most, I feel the better informed for having done it. But after  reading this debate several times, I was surprised to find that I didn&#8217;t  really think that either one of them had it quite right &#8211; too many  straw men [heroes and villains]. But after writing multiple versions of  this post, and then erasing them, I decided that I&#8217;m not really capable  of transcending my own experience of the major issues covered in this  debate and would start by talking about that experience. <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">In  the era that came before my time, psychotic people were removed from  society to Institutions originally conceived of as asylums:<\/div>\n<ul><span class=\"small\">  <strong><font color=\"#200020\"><span class=\"hw\">a&middot;sy&middot;lum<\/span><\/font><\/strong> &nbsp;<span class=\"pron\">(<font color=\"#200020\"><img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" align=\"absbottom\" src=\"http:\/\/img.tfd.com\/hm\/GIF\/schwa.gif\" \/>-s<img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" align=\"absbottom\" src=\"http:\/\/img.tfd.com\/hm\/GIF\/imacr.gif\" \/><img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" align=\"absbottom\" src=\"http:\/\/img.tfd.com\/hm\/GIF\/prime.gif\" \/>l<img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" align=\"absbottom\" src=\"http:\/\/img.tfd.com\/hm\/GIF\/schwa.gif\" \/>m<\/font>)<\/span><\/p>\n<div class=\"pseg\"><em><span class=\"hvr\">noun.<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\" class=\"ds-list\"><strong><span class=\"hvr\">1.<\/span> <\/strong> <span class=\"hvr\">An<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">institution<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">for<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">the<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">care<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">of<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">people,<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">especially<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">those<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">with<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">physical<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">or<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">mental<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">impairments,<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">who<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">require<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">organized<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">supervision<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">or<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">assistance.<\/span><\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\" class=\"ds-list\"><strong><span class=\"hvr\">2.<\/span> <\/strong> <span class=\"hvr\">A<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">place<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">offering<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">protection<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">and<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">safety;<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">a<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">shelter.<\/span><\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\" class=\"ds-list\"><strong><span class=\"hvr\">3.<\/span> <\/strong> <span class=\"hvr\">A<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">place,<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">such<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">as<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">a<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">church,<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">formerly<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">constituting<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">an<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">inviolable<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">refuge<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">for<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">criminals<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">or<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">debtors.<\/span><\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\" class=\"ds-list\"><strong><span class=\"hvr\">4.<\/span> <\/strong> <span class=\"hvr\">The<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">protection<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">afforded<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">by<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">a<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">sanctuary.<\/span><\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\" class=\"ds-list\"><strong><span class=\"hvr\">5.<\/span> <\/strong> <span class=\"hvr\">Protection<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">and<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">immunity<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">from<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">extradition<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">granted<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">by<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">a<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">government<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">to<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">a<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">political<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">refugee<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">from<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">another<\/span>  <span class=\"hvr\">country.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/span><\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\">   Note that the definition doesn&#8217;t say anything about protecting others  from the patients, but the opposite. Over time, perhaps a century, those  refuges became something else &#8211; described as snake pits or warehouses &#8211;  maintained by State governments. The notion of moral treatment or  refuge had given way to confinement and marginalization. I don&#8217;t know  the origins of de-Institutionalization. It obviously had something to do  with the coming of the antipsychotic medication, the deplorable state  of our &quot;State&quot; hospitals, and the fiscal burden of maintaining them.  Came then the Community Mental Health movement, a federally funded  program aimed to move the patients out of the Institutions into the  community by providing the necessary support services in the world at  large, rather than in the hospitals. I arrived in psychiatry as that  program was collapsing as the funding was disappearing.<\/div>\n<p align=\"justify\">Even  in its inadequately funded days, the Community Mental Health Movement  was partially successful. The Asylums disappeared and the patients were,  indeed, back in the community. As a psychiatry resident in the first  year, I spent my days with the patients who didn&#8217;t fit, who were too ill  to manage being in open society and were brought or came to the  &quot;Emergency Receiving Unit&quot; where I was assigned. In those days, I  encountered the writings of Thomas Szasz early from a fellow resident  [see <a href=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2012\/09\/15\/szazs-by-proxy\/\">Szasz by proxy&hellip;<\/a>]. The model of the times was focused on <em>relapses<\/em>,  episodes of intense psychosis, and the idea was to treat them with  medications and return the patients to the community as quickly as  possible. It was a laudable goal, but only when it worked.  Unfortunately, chronic psychosis doesn&#8217;t respond to the medication like  the acute illness does, and the patients don&#8217;t like to take it for  reasons easily discovered if you take only one pill yourself. And so  there was a subset of &quot;revolving door&quot; patients who came or were brought  back to the hospital regularly. And there was the specter of Tardive  Dyskinesia, a potential neurologic consequence of long term medication  that you only have to see once to live in terror of causing.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">I  had not come to psychiatry to be in charge of keeping the streets of  Atlanta safe nor to involuntarily treat anyone. I had discovered that  many of the patients who came to my office as an Internist were there  because of emotional tangles. I could see what was wrong, but I had no  idea what to do, so I came to a psychiatry residency to find out. I knew  nothing of psychosis &#8211; meeting it for the first time in my early  thirties in a big city charity hospital in a difficult historical epoch.  And that part was, indeed, difficult. I struggled with the same issues I  now read about on <font color=\"#200020\">Mad-in-America<\/font>. Besides the fellow resident who was Szaszian, I was fortunate to have an advisor, Dr. Jonas Robitscher, a psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, lawyer who had famously written <font color=\"#200020\">The Power of Psychiatry<\/font>.  While his conclusions were similar to those of Szasz, he was not a  &quot;blamer.&quot; He was a Civil Libertatian who believed that the right to <em>due process<\/em>  belonged in our courts, not our doctors. As he related it, the  historical addition of psychiatrists to the commitment process antedated  the coming of medication, and was originally conceived as a reform  movement to keep small town judges from &quot;sending away&quot; undesirables to  mental hospitals.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">Some years later, I had the  opportunity to work with a lawyer friend tasked with drafting a new  version of our State&#8217;s commitment law for the legislature. We changed it  to make judicial review mandatory rather than voluntary. On the next  iteration, he was able to change it further to take &quot;psychiatrist&quot; out  of the mix altogether [see <a href=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2014\/10\/21\/a-clarification\/\">a clarification&hellip;<\/a>].  That was years ago. I believe that&#8217;s now a general trend among the  States. But what I&#8217;m arguing with is not the details. It&#8217;s the  implication in Whitaker&#8217;s debate piece and among those who write on his  site that psychiatrists <u>want<\/u> that power, or hang on to it&nbsp; [the  power to commit] as a tool to retain some kind of hegemony among the  mental health disciplines or power over patients. I&#8217;ve not seen that to  be true. My own complaint is the opposite &#8211; that psychiatry proper has <u>ignored<\/u>  the care of the chronic mental patients during the last quarter century  just like everyone else &#8211; including the other mental health disciplines  and governmental agencies. From my perspective, there are no heroes in  this story.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">While I am much more on the side  of Bob Whitaker in looking at what happened in 1980 in terms of the APA  and academic psychiatry, I see the forces at work and the motives in a  very different way. Both Allen Frances and Bob Whitaker leave out too  much of that story for my tastes, and neither addresses what I consider  to be the central player in the piece &#8211; money. In the 1970s, the major  third party payouts by medical insurance in mental health were for  inpatient hospitalizations and long psychotherapies. That was not going  to continue, and mental health coverage was under attack. That was a  major factor in the <em>medicalization<\/em> of psychiatric diagnosis in  1980 &#8211; legitimizing access to third party payments. In that regard, it  was successful for psychiatrists and the other mental health  disciplines. I doubt it would&#8217;ve happened otherwise. What then happened  was unexpected, at least by me. The insurance carriers took charge and  split up mental health care. The [more expensive] psychiatrists were  paid for medical things like <em>medication management<\/em>. The  psychotherapy\/counselling was partitioned to other disciplines in  carefully controlled and monitored contracts. In-patient reimbursement  essentially disappeared. The non-psychiatrists were happy to get access  to covered care. Many psychiatrists migrated to medication management.  And voila` &#8211; that was that. Most referrals to participating  psychiatrists came from the now covered psychologists, counsellors, and  social workers. It was a symbiosis and many patients\/clients spoke of &quot;my psychiatrist&quot;  and &quot;my therapist&quot; as an inter-related pair. Psychiatry and the other  mental health disciplines needed to change in those days, but the  changes that came were driven by economics, and that trend escalated  when PHARMA jumped onboard. The chronic psychotic patients were marginalized in  the process and the criminal justice system did the only thing it knows  how to do &#8211; put many of them in jail.<\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">I left  those years being involved with the treatment of the psychotic patients  feeling much the same way about psychotic illness as that advocated by  Dr. Sandra Steingard in the current <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/madinamericacontinuinged.org\/\">Mad-in-America CME<\/a>  &#8211; antipsychotics for acute psychosis with a constant drive towards as  little as possible or none  thereafter. I followed some patients with  those diagnoses long term and was impressed that a practical  psychotherapy tailored to fit the illness was more effective than I  might have imagined [see <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2011\/08\/22\/1-from-n-equals-one\/\">1. <em>from n equals one<\/em>&hellip;<\/a>&nbsp;       and the posts that follow]. But I was less successful in  sustaining zero medication than I would&#8217;ve hoped, but I still never  stopped trying.     <\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">I agree with Robert  Whitaker about what happened when Managed Care, PHARMA, academic  psychiatry, and the APA got together &#8211; it was a perfect storm of the worst kind. Pick any  post on this blog to confirm that, though most of mine focus on the  corruption involved in the clinical trials and promotion of drug  treatments. But I don&#8217;t at all agree with his blanket indictment of  psychiatry in the plight of our chronic mental patients. Psychiatry was  just one of many who ignored them, including the other mental health  disciplines, our governments, and our culture. I have nothing but  respect for those psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers who  stuck with these patients on the front lines in the face of so little  support. But I likewise have little positive to say about the KOLs who  pontificated about their care from afar and generated guidelines of questionable scientific validity.<\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">One  of my objections to Whitaker&#8217;s comments in this debate is his idea that  the move to get chronic mental patients out of the prison has a hidden  agenda:<\/div>\n<ul><em><font color=\"#200020\"><span class=\"small\"><\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">Third,  psychiatry&rsquo;s concern about the imprisonment of the mentally ill is  being used by advocates of forced outpatient treatment as a Trojan  Horse.  The advocates for forced treatment in outpatient settings [such  as the Treatment Advocacy Center] argue that forced drug treatment would  prevent the mentally ill from ending up in prison, and thus their  legislation, which in fact curbs the civil rights of citizens in  profound ways, comes cloaked in the rhetorical garb of &ldquo;humanism.&rdquo; If we  are going to have an honest societal discussion about the shame of  imprisoning the &ldquo;mentally ill,&rdquo; then it needs to be completely decoupled  from that legislative agenda.<\/div>\n<p>      <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">Indeed  an argument can be made that the growing imprisonment of the &ldquo;mentally  ill&rdquo; is yet another example of how our drug-based paradigm of care has  failed us. The use of psychiatric medications in our society has  exploded over the past 25 years; there is great societal pressure put on  people diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder to take their  medications; and yet we now have this problem of hundreds of thousands  of &ldquo;mentally ill&rdquo; in prisons and jails.<\/div>\n<p><\/span><\/font><\/em><\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\">He  has every right in the world to argue with Dr. E. Fuller Torrey&#8217;s  positions. But his charge is bigger than that. It&#8217;s that the efforts of  psychiatrists to help chronically psychotic patients or get them out of jail come from hidden,  ideologically driven and misdirected motives &#8211; tricksters all. As one of  his Mad-in-America bloggers said recently:<\/div>\n<ul>\n<div align=\"justify\">\n<div align=\"justify\" class=\"small\"><em><font color=\"#200020\">&quot;I  venture  to suggest that most practicing psychiatrists, if pressed,   would choose  to replace or discard any existing treatment or   intervention save one:  the power to impose a treatment or  intervention.&quot;<\/font><\/em><\/div>\n<div align=\"right\" class=\"small\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.madinamerica.com\/2014\/10\/coercion-stupid\/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=coercion-stupid\" target=\"_blank\">It&rsquo;s the Coercion, Stupid!<\/a> <em>by <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.madinamerica.com\/author\/dcohen\/\">David Cohen<\/a><\/em><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\">I  suppose that after the misadventures of the last twenty-five years, it  would be almost too much to ask for this debate to lead to a consensus,  or to step out of what has gone before and come up with a more  productive path. I personally find the behavior of the APA and academic  psychiatry over these years indefensible, and sure don&#8217;t see &quot;<em>the APA as a hapless, sad sack organization &mdash;&nbsp;not very powerful, and not at all clever.<\/em>&quot;  I wasn&#8217;t proud of how anyone acted back then, including the other  professional organizations involved. And things have gone from bad to  worse along the way. But I find the blanket attribution of malicious  motives by Robert Whitaker and those around him unnecessarily divisive  generalizations. <\/div>\n<p align=\"justify\">Nothing in life prepared  me for the complexity of the schizophrenias &#8211; the acute psychoses, the  chronic forms, the residual or negative symptoms, or even the miraculous  recovery seen in some. It took years to get a feel for the many  different ways they affect the lives of those afflicted, and there are  surprises aplenty &#8211; good and bad for even the most experienced  clinicians. Looking back over the history of the our various approaches,  a clear pattern emerges. Each new reform movement has been built on the  failures of what came before and ultimately replaced it &#8211; accompanied  by great expectations bolstered by small samples of evidence. Over time,  the refuges of the Quakers became the asylums of Dorthea Dix became the  snake pits of the 1950s. The liberation of de-Institutionalization lead  to a lot of desperate homelessness with people living under bridges.  Szasz&#8217;s <font color=\"#200020\">Myth of Mental Illness<\/font> was a factor  in inappropriately filling our prisons &#8211; just another kind of  Institutionalism. The miracle of Thorazine became the cause of Tardive  Dyskinesia and <em>Chemical Restraint<\/em>. I like the current <font color=\"#200020\">Recovery<\/font> meme, and the <font color=\"#200020\">Open Dialog<\/font>  approaches of Northern Finland Whitaker mentions. They are hopeful  hypotheses awaiting pilot projects and careful study with an eye to what  kind of support is needed to see if they can work in an urban America.  And while I am personally an advocate of minimizing the use of  antipsychotics, I wasn&#8217;t nearly as successful as I <em>wished<\/em> to be.  Medications overused? <em>oh yes<\/em>. Medications essential? <em>more often than I  thought<\/em>. Likewise, I am a lifelong Civil Libertarian, but have seen many  psychotic people who can&#8217;t manage with no restraint and end up losing  all freedom when they would fare much better with much less restriction.  <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">   So as much as I appreciate the observation that the <em>medication for life<\/em>  recommendations are often misguided and support the focus on programs  aiming towards recovery, I&#8217;m troubled by the messianic feel to Bob&#8217;s  arguments and more particularly those of many of his followers. They  remind me of the naive rhetoric of an earlier age &#8211; the age of  de-Institutionalization I lived through in times past. I don&#8217;t believe  there is any simple or universal solution to the societal or personal  dilemmas of psychotic illness. We make a little progress, then way  overdo things &#8211; applying local successes too widely and step all over  ourselves in the process. We see the therapeutic zeal of the past as the  new evil of the present and start swinging at windmills. And we end up  throwing out the babies with the bathwater as if we don&#8217;t know how to do  anything else. The people with the last great solution and those  promoting the next great solution go to war rather than working towards a  meeting of the minds or generating test programs that might  scientifically resolve differences. So, to be perhaps too candid with my  words, I had that <strong><em><font color=\"#200020\">oh-shit-here-we-go-again<\/font><\/em><\/strong>  feeling reading this debate between two people I really respect. I want  them to do it again without the platitudes or preaching to each other, and include others from both sides of this debate.  I want them to visit the jails together and take each other seriously.  And I want those who weigh in who aren&#8217;t around psychotic people to spend time with  as many as they can find. It&#8217;s time for a change [and these are two of the people who are going to influence that change], but I&#8217;m worried we  won&#8217;t be careful enough in building a broad-based change that will iterate  towards programs that endure and grow &#8211; that people will just keep talking past each other. Heroes and villains may be the  stuff of psychotic delusions, but they have no place in the formulation of our policies going forward&#8230;<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A Debate Between Allen Frances and Robert Whitaker Mad in America by Allen Frances, M.D. and Robert Whitaker December 4, 2014 [full text on-line] It&#8217;s there for all to read so I won&#8217;t try to summarize it here. I&#8217;d suggest reading it, actually reading it several times. Because it&#8217;s so familiar, I tended to skim [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_bbp_topic_count":0,"_bbp_reply_count":0,"_bbp_total_topic_count":0,"_bbp_total_reply_count":0,"_bbp_voice_count":0,"_bbp_anonymous_reply_count":0,"_bbp_topic_count_hidden":0,"_bbp_reply_count_hidden":0,"_bbp_forum_subforum_count":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-51960","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-opinion"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51960","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=51960"}],"version-history":[{"count":58,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51960\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":52076,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51960\/revisions\/52076"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=51960"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=51960"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=51960"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}