{"id":53328,"date":"2015-01-17T10:45:21","date_gmt":"2015-01-17T15:45:21","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/?p=53328"},"modified":"2015-01-17T18:42:31","modified_gmt":"2015-01-17T23:42:31","slug":"the-fiction-and-another-thing","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2015\/01\/17\/the-fiction-and-another-thing\/","title":{"rendered":"the fiction &#8211; and another thing&#8230;"},"content":{"rendered":"<br \/>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"big\"><a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.psychiatrictimes.com\/special-reports\/relationship-between-antidepressant-initiation-and-suicide-risk\/page\/0\/1\">The Relationship Between Antidepressant Initiation and Suicide Risk<\/a><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"middle\"><strong><font color=\"#200020\">Special Reports, Psychopharmacology, Suicide<\/font><\/strong><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"big\"><strong><font color=\"#200020\">Psychiatric Times<\/font><\/strong><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"middle\"><strong><font color=\"#0066cc\">By Robert D. Gibbons, PhD and J. John Mann, MD<\/font><\/strong><\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"small\">December 31, 2014<\/div>\n<div align=\"center\" class=\"middle\">[<a href=\"http:\/\/www.psychiatrictimes.com\/special-reports\/relationship-between-antidepressant-initiation-and-suicide-risk\/page\/0\/1\" target=\"_blank\">full text on-line<\/a> with free registration]<\/div>\n<p align=\"justify\"> There has been much debate about whether certain classes of medications [eg, antidepressants] increase the risk of suicidal behavior and whether that risk is greater in children, adolescents, and young adults. In 2004, the FDA placed a black box warning on all antidepressants because of concerns that the medications increase risk of suicidal thoughts and behavior in youths; in 2006, the warning was extended to include young adults [up to age 26]. The FDA based its black box warning on results of its meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials [RCTs] conducted in pediatric and adult psychiatric and nonpsychiatric populations.  <\/p>\n<p align=\"justify\">Questions regarding a possible relationship between antidepressants and suicide were first raised in 1990 with the publication of a series of case reports in which the then newly introduced SSRIs were associated with the apparent emergence of suicidal thoughts and behavior. This led to FDA hearings in 1991, but no evidence of an increased risk of suicidal acts associated with antidepressants was found. In October 2004, concerns raised over paroxetine use in children and adolescents eventually led the FDA to issue a black box warning regarding antidepressants and suicide for children younger than 18 years&#8230;<\/p>\n<div align=\"center\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" height=\"18\" border=\"0\" width=\"66\" src=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/images\/snip.gif\" \/><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">This next report is from the testimony at the first <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/www.fda.gov\/ohrms\/dockets\/ac\/prozac\/2443T1.pdf#page=24\">FDA Hearing<\/a> about suicidality with Prozac&reg; held in 1991:       <\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\"><em>&#8230; My husband was given Prozac on January 24 of 1990.    On the evening of February 8,  1990,  he killed himself. I am told his death was instantaneous, but I believe his cleat actually began the moment he took his first dose of Prozac. Before Prozac, my husband was very involved with people,  our family,  and his work.    He was very much in charge of his business.    But within days after he started taking Prozac I noticed a personality change in him.     He showed sign of restlessness, akathisia, agitation, pacing,  and his appearance was very drawn.    He developed severe insomnia, extreme fatigue,  chills,  racing heart, dry mouth, and upset stomach.     His hands would shake uncontrollably at times. This really alarmed him.      I would ask him what was wrong and his only reply was,   &quot;I don&#8217;t know,  I don&#8217;t know.&quot;<\/em><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div align=\"justify\">In the article by Gibbons and Mann above, they talk about &quot;suicidality&quot; as if it&#8217;s an isolated phenomenon and address the question of whether it occurs with an increased incidence in depressed people on antidepressants. That&#8217;s common in articles that address this issue, but it doesn&#8217;t fit with my understanding of the question on the table, either clinically or with the Black Box Warning. What I think this is all about are cases like this one &#8211; a patient that develops what this man&#8217;s wife is describing [which I know by the term &#8211; Akathisia]. It&#8217;s another example of a <em><strong><font color=\"#200020\">confusion of tongues<\/font><\/strong><\/em> &#8211; people talking at each other without clarifying shared meanings.<\/div>\n<p align=\"justify\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" hspace=\"4\" height=\"44\" border=\"0\" width=\"120\" vspace=\"3\" align=\"right\" src=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/images\/prozac.gif\" \/>My own experience as a low prescriber was that when <font color=\"#200020\">Prozac&reg;<\/font> first came out, I had a couple of patients who took it for a day or two, then stopped saying, &quot;<em><font color=\"#200020\">That stuff made me crazy<\/font><\/em>&quot; and &quot;<em><font color=\"#200020\">I was coming out of my skin<\/font><\/em>.&quot; I was told by colleagues that it was <em>activating<\/em>, but I stopped prescribing it anyway. Over the years, I had occasional new patients who described the same <em><font color=\"#200020\">agita<\/font><\/em> talking about being given an SSRI by someone else before I saw them. The Black Box Warning came after I retired, and I was oblivious. Not long after I started volunteering, I gave <font color=\"#200020\">Celexa&reg;<\/font> to an adolescent, who had an extreme Akathesia reaction with suicidal thoughts. That&#8217;s how I learned about it. Since then, I&#8217;ve seen two suicides in other peoples&#8217; cases that I&#8217;m sure were SSRI induced, and multiple others with the Akathisia syndrome who immediately stopped the medication and it cleared quickly [I warn <u>all<\/u> patients]. In both suicide cases, the people around them mentioned personality change as part of the picture.  <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">Here are a couple of concise descriptive references to the <em><font color=\"#200020\">SSRI <strong>&middot;<\/strong> Akathisia <strong>&middot;<\/strong> Suicidality<\/font><\/em> connection:<\/div>\n<ul><span class=\"small\">    <\/p>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&#038;rct=j&#038;q=&#038;esrc=s&#038;source=web&#038;cd=8&#038;ved=0CFYQFjAH&#038;url=http%3A%2F%2Ftasmantimes.com.au%2Fdownload.sbcms%3Fid%3D43&#038;ei=9H66VMueJca4ggTW-IOwAg&#038;usg=AFQjCNEJWv_lZSm5nDOn4KLzqIWM7CLHIQ&#038;sig2=3-Zwpe0NMXBHpuUY_Nu09w&#038;bvm=bv.83829542,d.eXY&#038;cad=rja\" target=\"_blank\">APPENDIX 1 SSRIs &amp; MECHANISMS OF SUICIDE:<\/a> David Healy <\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.lawyersandsettlements.com\/features\/drugs-medical\/ssri-suicide-akathisia.html#.VLprdy6LXHQ\" target=\"_blank\">SSRI-Induced Akathisia&#8217;s Link To Suicide and Violence<\/a>, Evelyn Pringle \t<\/li>\n<p>    <\/span><\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\">When I read something like this Gibbons\/Mann piece, my first thought is that they must not see many patients. They talk about suicidality with SSRIs like the question is, &quot;<em><font color=\"#200020\">Does the medication &#8216;turn up&#8217; the usual suicidal thoughts of depression?<\/font><\/em>&quot; Maybe that&#8217;s a question some people think about, but I&#8217;m not one of them. What I&#8217;m talking about is a distinct syndrome with <em><font color=\"#200020\">inner restlessness<\/font><\/em>,<em><font color=\"#200020\"> agitation<\/font><\/em>,<em><font color=\"#200020\"> aggressive thoughts and actions<\/font><\/em>,<em><font color=\"#200020\"> disinhibition<\/font><\/em>, and<em><font color=\"#200020\"> sometimes lethal violence.<\/font><\/em> <font color=\"#200002\">It&#8217;s distinct from the depressive syndromes being treated &#8211; something else.<\/font> Far and away, the commonest outcome is for the medication to be discontinued abruptly by the patient and it clears quickly. My guess is that these are some of the early drop-outs in clinical trials [see Healy above]. And I doubt they make it into population studies often, if at all.<\/div>\n<p><\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\">I don&#8217;t like being this blunt, but when I read these Gibbons\/Mann papers, I don&#8217;t think they know what they&#8217;re talking about [literally]. In my mind, the Black Box Warning is about an infrequent, idiosyncratic syndrome that can be associated with aggression, suicidality, suicide itself, and even homicide; one that likely has a physiologic basis affecting the extrapyramidal nervous system. I can find no mention of the syndrome in any of their papers [cataloged in <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"http:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/2015\/01\/16\/the-fiction\/\">the fiction&hellip;<\/a>]. It&#8217;s certainly not something you would go lookiing for in some health plan database&#8230;<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The Relationship Between Antidepressant Initiation and Suicide Risk Special Reports, Psychopharmacology, Suicide Psychiatric Times By Robert D. Gibbons, PhD and J. John Mann, MD December 31, 2014 [full text on-line with free registration] There has been much debate about whether certain classes of medications [eg, antidepressants] increase the risk of suicidal behavior and whether that [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_bbp_topic_count":0,"_bbp_reply_count":0,"_bbp_total_topic_count":0,"_bbp_total_reply_count":0,"_bbp_voice_count":0,"_bbp_anonymous_reply_count":0,"_bbp_forum_subforum_count":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-53328","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-opinion"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/53328","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=53328"}],"version-history":[{"count":29,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/53328\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":53357,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/53328\/revisions\/53357"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=53328"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=53328"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/1boringoldman.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=53328"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}